Looks fun, but it seems as though the ratings applied ought to be WI1-2 instead of AI1-2. I don't see how this could be alpine ice, though it may have an 'alpine' feel to it.
I would call it primarily AI when I climbed it (b/c the snow frozen SOLID into hard neve). Inretrospect, those are unusual conditions... I updated it as primarily a snow climb. Thanks!
Looks better. However, the idea of assigning a YDS grade to snow is somewhat outdated: it's better to state the max slope angle of the snow.
Frozen snow is not alpine ice, nor is neve. Neve is actually a transitional state between snow and ice. Neve is whitish and has the consistency of styrofoam.
'Alpine' usually implies 'above treeline'. In winter, many mountain areas have alpine-like conditions in some respects, but are not true alpine environments. Generally the presence of alpine ice means a glacier or permanent snowfield is nearby.
Oh... I didn't have an inclinometer with me, so I guess I'm stuck. And by the way, the class system is not YDS, it is the even older Sierra Club rating system. Neve is AI in my book (and some others, see Jeff Lowe's AI movie or The Mountaineering Handbook By Craig Connally). I usually use the criteria that if it turned directly from liquid to ice, it is WI. If if transitioned from some form of frozen precip to ice, it is AI (including glacial ice, rime, etc.). Whatever... this page is WI now.
You're probably right though. I'll change the AI to WI on the topo pic as soon as I can, I guess I'm stuck on the Class vs. Angle position, unless I make something up (or maybe calucalate off the topo)... Thanks for the help!
Regarding slope angle: let's say I wanted to think about climbing this thing. Usually when I choose my tools & technique it's based on how steep the slope is. I don't really have a good idea of what a class 3-4 snow slope might be. If for example it's 45-55 degrees max (approximately), then I have a pretty good idea what I'm in for.
You gave it an AI1-2 rating before - these grades are based on slope angle, so presumably you had an idea ? You could also maybe compare the slope angle to other similar climbs you have done .. maybe you could say "it feels like so-and-so degrees but I haven't measured it" or some such ..
Sorry, didn't mean to pick on you .. I haven't gotten out on the ice yet this season :( Cheers !
rhyang - Dec 26, 2008 4:47 pm - Hasn't voted
WI vs. AILooks fun, but it seems as though the ratings applied ought to be WI1-2 instead of AI1-2. I don't see how this could be alpine ice, though it may have an 'alpine' feel to it.
sshankle - Dec 27, 2008 10:37 am - Hasn't voted
Re: WI vs. AIYeah, thats probably right. Fixed.
I would call it primarily AI when I climbed it (b/c the snow frozen SOLID into hard neve). Inretrospect, those are unusual conditions... I updated it as primarily a snow climb. Thanks!
rhyang - Dec 29, 2008 12:57 am - Hasn't voted
Re: WI vs. AILooks better. However, the idea of assigning a YDS grade to snow is somewhat outdated: it's better to state the max slope angle of the snow.
Frozen snow is not alpine ice, nor is neve. Neve is actually a transitional state between snow and ice. Neve is whitish and has the consistency of styrofoam.
'Alpine' usually implies 'above treeline'. In winter, many mountain areas have alpine-like conditions in some respects, but are not true alpine environments. Generally the presence of alpine ice means a glacier or permanent snowfield is nearby.
sshankle - Dec 29, 2008 7:02 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: WI vs. AIOh... I didn't have an inclinometer with me, so I guess I'm stuck. And by the way, the class system is not YDS, it is the even older Sierra Club rating system. Neve is AI in my book (and some others, see Jeff Lowe's AI movie or The Mountaineering Handbook By Craig Connally). I usually use the criteria that if it turned directly from liquid to ice, it is WI. If if transitioned from some form of frozen precip to ice, it is AI (including glacial ice, rime, etc.). Whatever... this page is WI now.
You're probably right though. I'll change the AI to WI on the topo pic as soon as I can, I guess I'm stuck on the Class vs. Angle position, unless I make something up (or maybe calucalate off the topo)... Thanks for the help!
Scott
rhyang - Dec 29, 2008 8:35 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: WI vs. AIRegarding slope angle: let's say I wanted to think about climbing this thing. Usually when I choose my tools & technique it's based on how steep the slope is. I don't really have a good idea of what a class 3-4 snow slope might be. If for example it's 45-55 degrees max (approximately), then I have a pretty good idea what I'm in for.
You gave it an AI1-2 rating before - these grades are based on slope angle, so presumably you had an idea ? You could also maybe compare the slope angle to other similar climbs you have done .. maybe you could say "it feels like so-and-so degrees but I haven't measured it" or some such ..
Sorry, didn't mean to pick on you .. I haven't gotten out on the ice yet this season :( Cheers !